Exclusive: Shabana Azmi says films should ‘start conversation’, mentions Fire, Arth

Actor Shabana Azmi completes 50 glorious years in the Indian film industry this year. The veteran actor recently had an exclusive conversation with India Today Digital, during which she shared a few anecdotes from a career spanning over five decades. Here are some excerpts :
Firstly, I think slowly but steadily, the reality is dawning upon filmmakers that content is the king. On the other hand, I think that there is no foolproof formula. The fact is that when you take stars who have traction, then it is much easier for you to sell the film, which is important. But, even that is not happening now. And I think if all the extraneous budget that goes into pleasing stars’ demand, some of that gets reduced. And then that reduces the budget of the film. That would be nice.
I enjoy working with young people very much. The challenge is the number of scenes that are made against the green screen (chroma). My God, it’s a completely different demand because so much of it is pure imagination. There is nobody there in front of you. And why not? I mean, if you have that advantage in technology, why wouldn’t you use it? But definitely, actors have to make every change that is happening in the medium as part of their prowess. They can’t say, ‘no, I don’t know this, I don’t do this’. You have to make it a part of the deal if you want to be relevant.
I was only eating five C’s – cucumber, carrot, cabbage, celery and one more that I forgot. I only ate these five vegetables for an entire month. And I used to find that very taxing. We are not made of rubber. Today, you have so many things. At that time, you didn’t have so many things, so, you just had to just zip your mouth and do it. But, it was so essential to do it because I don’t think I could have found my path. In Mandi, there was Rukmini, who was such an over-the-top woman, and so gracious.

Shabana Azmi in a still from Mandi

I would eat two breakfasts. I used to eat so much. Shyam Benegal used to say, ‘your career is over, and they will only give you will only be offered to play a mother on-screen. Then you will say you ruined me’. I used to eat so much. There was a time when a ban was put on us. That we cannot work on more than 12 films at one time. We were making 12 films at one time. Can you imagine? My God, it’s incredible how crazy that system used to be.
Rishi Kapoor, who is such a good actor, when he was playing the guitar in Karz (1980), what was he doing? He was just strumming on the guitar. He was not playing any chords. Nobody even demanded that from him. Today, you can’t do the same. Today, you’ll be pulled out. So today, you have to work. Work not just on your body, and on your appearance, but also on your craft.
I must tell you that when it was offered to me, I liked the script very much. But, I was working a lot in the slums and I felt that this would be used very heavily against me, because as it is, the husbands of the women that I was working with used to think that I was a very bad influence on them. I would ask them to make their own decisions and stuff like that.
My whole family came out in support. Javed (Akhtar, her husband) said, “See, it’s not as if this will not bring you brickbats. It will. But, if you think that you will be able to defend that, if you feel that this will not be an exploitative film, if you feel that this will start a conversation, then do it”. Zoya was so young. I think she was not even 18-years old. I told her, “we were offered this, and I don’t know what to do”. She asked, “do you like the script or not?”. I said, “I like the script very much”. She said, “then?” So I said, “but this is a subject”. She said, “so?” At 18, she said this! So I thought, look at the way the young think and look at how we think. I felt moved, and I felt that this would be done sensitively, which it was done.

Shabana Azmi on a poster of Fire

I also figured that India is not a monolith. Not everybody would react the same way. It’s impossible. Everybody wouldn’t, but some would be outraged and feel overwhelmed. Some would be angry – all kinds of things. But, a conversation would start. And finally, that’s what cinema can do. That’s what it can do. If it can start conversations rather than just brush it under the carpet as if it doesn’t exist, it becomes a cult film.
I just had this experience of watching Arth (1982) at the MAMI Festival. I had my apprehensions. I said, “Oh my God, this is a festival audience, and they’ll find it so over the top. And what will be the reaction and all that”? But anyway, I watched it with the audience, and it was incredible because the audience was cheering and clapping. And I just missed Mahesh (Bhatt) so much. He hasn’t seen it with an audience for such a long time. I said, “Oh man, I wish he was there”.
Then Masoom (1983) certainly, because although it is imprinted in everybody’s memory, a lot of people are associated with Masoom. Shyam Benegal’s Mandi (1983), definitely. Because look at it, look at the star cast. Oh my God, that star cast was unbelievable. And we were there for 40 days. That used to be Shyam’s mandate. It was nobody would come and go, we had to stay together, live together. And my secretary would say “Why are you giving 40 days for a film in which you are getting less than the signing amount for a mainstream film? How can you give them 40 days and just shut up?” And we had such a ball when we were making the film. Oh God, we had an absolute ball.

Shabana Azmi on a poster of Arth

I think Makdi would be a great film to have in theatres again. There are so many kids who still talk to me about Makdee (2002). And I ask them, “I was such a horrible witch in it, why are you all still interested in me”? I think children have this kind of fascination (towards the film).
My father, Kaifi Azmi, 70 years ago, wrote a poem which is popular even today, called Aurat. He says in the poem: “Uth meri jaan mere saath hi chalna hai tujhe”. We lived in a commune at that time because he was a member of the communist party. I lived in a commune until I was nine-years old. There were no big talks about gender equality, but it existed organically. All the women were working, and my father would take on the responsibilities of my mother when she was going on her tours. And she would do the rest. To mere liye toh it was a given (I was normal for me while growing up).
I must have been around 19-years old when I realised that gender equality was an exception rather than the rule. It came as a huge surprise to me. There comes a phase in an actor’s life when you cannot treat your work like a nine-to-five job. Some of the residue of the characters that you are playing will be left behind in your life. When I was doing these women-centric films, films in which women were taking decisions, they were revolting against tyranny in different ways, all that was leaving its impact on me.
My father, at one point, I feel, must have been disappointed when he saw that I was not even interested in politics. I was not interested in even reading the newspaper. And he never pushed me. I think he was just confident that the mitti (soil) was so fertile that the plant could take roots. And that’s exactly what happened. When I started rebelling, I chose characters where, even if I was playing a helpless woman, it was essential for her to take a stand, or I was creating a sense of outrage in the viewer that you feel this must not happen.
I don’t think that the female gaze is only the woman’s priority. There are a lot of filmmakers who are very sensitive to women and also have a female gaze. But, I’m very interested in the female gaze because I feel that, for far too long, the solutions to all problems in the world have been decided by men. And I insist that men and women are different. Not better, not worse, just different. This difference needs to be celebrated. Now, that difference needs to be included in the dialogue that is taking place, whether it’s about the arts and culture, whether it’s about politics, whether it’s about science, or anything else.